When I was in grad school there was a man from Spain whom a Catholic classmate told me was a member of Opus Dei. He characterized him as an extreme sexual conservative. I did not have any interaction with this man in our class except for the casual greeting. Then, the professor assigned us to work in teams. Each team in our class had to create a lesson you could use to teach a certain topic in ESL, and we also had to have an activity in this lesson. So my group was doing sex education, and I had an activity of putting on a condom using a small cucumber. This man in our class told me at the end of our group's presentation that my presentation was the best, but he would never use the lesson because he believes condom use is wrong.
He seemed to be a very nice guy, but other than hearing him tell me that, I never talked religion or politics with him. Now I am wondering if my classmate was correct. I would love to learn more.
According to what you are saying we cannot see Amy Conney Barrett as a member of Opus Dei, just the Federalist Society. I am sure there is a lot of overlap though.
Shannon will know a lot more about who can be a member of Opus Dei. But generally yes, Opus Dei Catholics don’t believe in contraceptives. Even condoms. Sex is for procreation, not pleasure. And the act should always have a chance of causing pregnancy.
This book does a deep dive into politics at the Vatican, and touches on the hatred of Francis. As the title suggests, the book is an exploration of what the author describes as near-universal homosexuality at the Vatican - whether closeted, celibate, or lived as an open secret. He draws a connection between the combination of spiritual pride, sexual shame, and internalized homophobia and the culture of rabid misogyny and moral decay. As depicted in the book, Pope Francis stands out from those around him by being both not gay and disinclined to condemn and persecute gay people. As you say, he is very hated by the well-funded conservative American faction.
My maternal grandparents were Jehovah's Witnesses and saw their religion as "The Truth". I was raised as a Catholic in a household where there were horrible fights over whose religion was the true religion. I didn't have much of a choice, but I sided with my dad and chose Catholicism, and so did my mom finally. In my 20s and 30s, my former husband and friends were connected to the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland, so I identified heavily with the Catholics in the North as being a group that was discriminated against and persecuted by the Protestant Majority (who ruled in government) The Catholic Church in the Republic of Ireland was rife with scandal, abuse, and oppression. I finally gave up practicing my Catholic faith and Christianity when the child sexual abuse scandal was exposed here in Boston.
I've been waiting for this one. Divide and conquer is a legitimate strategy to use with these folks. But for abortion and a couple of other issues like government funding for religious activities and education, they'd be at each other's throats. In fact, the fundamentalist protestants in this country have historically persecuted Catholics. They actually killed them.
One personal story: I'm a military brat, our family was transferred from base to base about every three years. I attended four high schools, two in Europe, followed in turn by New Orleans and ultimately Fayetteville, NC.
In Fayetteville I was friends with the daughter of a Pentecostal minister. She was a year older than me. One Friday evening, I was at her house to pick her up to go hang out with mutual friends.
As it happens, they had a house guest who had been her father's roommate at seminary. His name was Orel Roberts. Roberts was one of the very first televangelists. He did tent revivals around the country and miraculously healed the sick on B&W TV.
She was home from (you guessed it) Orel Roberts University (ORU) in Tulsa.
Roberts asked me, all of 18 years old, with no small talk, if I was born again. I responded to the effect that as a Roman Catholic, we thought of it a bit differently. His response turned me off on religion forevermore. He said, "Idolators don't go to heaven." How's an 18-year old supposed to respond to that?
When I discovered the seven mountains strategy almost 30 years ago, I recognized immediately what it was. So, Andra, I was a convert long before I found this blog. Thanks for taking the time to educate the rest of us.
My childhood pastor HATED ORAL ROBERTS WITH A SEETHING PASSION. HATED HATED HATED HIM.
And this is the real crack. Figure out which egomaniac grifter hates which other egomaniac grifter and get them to destroy each other. Because they are nothing but egos bent on self-glorification and graft.
I’m sorry to hear Oral Roberts called you an idolator, James. I taught there in the late 80s. I don’t think that was a position of the administration then, as there were Catholic students attending. I found charismatics to not disparage Catholics, since the charismatic renewal began in the Catholic Church. Baptists, however, did. The Baptist high school I attended claimed Catholics weren’t Christians. However, many faculty, myself included, did not believe as Oral did. We had two gay men and one lesbian (me) in the English Dept. I was only in my mid twenties, and didn’t identify as a lesbian then. But I certainly was.
This was 1967. Much later, I had a friend who taught English at Liberty. He said there was more diversity there than one might imagine.
At the time (‘67), and now even more, I wrote it off to bigotry. It was, for me, an awakening to the hypocrisy, narrow mindedness and the potential evil of religion. I’m at the point that I read the First Amendment as freedom from vs. freedom of religion.
The religious war with be incredibly violent and bloody. Look to the fundamentalists in the Middle East and the Irish Troubles as examples. This makes me seriously consider buying a handgun. I would definitely be a target. I already have a long gun. I hate to think this way, but I think it's realistic for some of us at this point given recent events.
I will try my best to be there Wednesday. As someone who grew up in the charismatic wing of the movement, I have to quibble with a couple of your characterizations of the group. I never heard anyone claim that speaking in tongues was required. I never experienced the gifts of the spirit as performative. And I never heard overt criticism of other Christian groups. These may only be my experiences. However, as someone who attended an independent, Baptist school, I heard much criticism of Catholics. I was part of several charismatic groups from different parts of the country. In fact, charismatics always spoke well of Catholics, since the charismatic renewal began in the Catholic Church. I think, at least with the charismatics, it’s not helpful to generalize. I think the group is massive and more diverse than outsiders might expect. Amy Coney Barrette is someone who bridges the charismatic/catholic divide and suggests how difficult it can be to accurately characterize the charismatics. I’d love to hear what other charismatics experienced. They may have differed from mine.
All three of these sects are part of much bigger Christian groups. For the Dominionists, speaking in tongues seems to be part of channeling God's edicts or prophecies. It seems to be separate from general charismatics, but I'd love to hear from others with experience in that movement.
I guess I don’t understand who Dominionists are then. In charismatic settings prophesies are delivered in English/the vernacular, so they’re understandable to gathered believers. “Tongues” are prayer languages understandable to the Holy Spirit, though they may be in actual human languages, just not the language of the one speaking. Again, I can only speak from my experience. I’m not a theologian or expert in the field. My academic credentials are only in English literature, as you know. I’m just really, really curious to know how my experience fits into any larger, more comprehensive charismatic one. For example, I have zero experience with Assemblies of God churches. They may believe differently than the folks at Oral Robert’s University, where I taught. Fascinating stuff. You know more about this than I do. For example, I didn’t even know there were three kinds of Christian nationalists.
Andra, I hope I can make it. Super interested.
When I was in grad school there was a man from Spain whom a Catholic classmate told me was a member of Opus Dei. He characterized him as an extreme sexual conservative. I did not have any interaction with this man in our class except for the casual greeting. Then, the professor assigned us to work in teams. Each team in our class had to create a lesson you could use to teach a certain topic in ESL, and we also had to have an activity in this lesson. So my group was doing sex education, and I had an activity of putting on a condom using a small cucumber. This man in our class told me at the end of our group's presentation that my presentation was the best, but he would never use the lesson because he believes condom use is wrong.
He seemed to be a very nice guy, but other than hearing him tell me that, I never talked religion or politics with him. Now I am wondering if my classmate was correct. I would love to learn more.
According to what you are saying we cannot see Amy Conney Barrett as a member of Opus Dei, just the Federalist Society. I am sure there is a lot of overlap though.
Shannon will know a lot more about who can be a member of Opus Dei. But generally yes, Opus Dei Catholics don’t believe in contraceptives. Even condoms. Sex is for procreation, not pleasure. And the act should always have a chance of causing pregnancy.
Apologies,Andra, if you’re the one who originally linked to this article.And perhaps I should be saying a heathen prayer for Pope Francis’ recovery?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/26/kevin-roberts-project-2025-opus-dei
They won’t elect another Pope Francis. The next pope will be a hardline conservative.
One of my neighbors teaches cannon law at Catholic University. He hates Francis with a burning passion.
This book does a deep dive into politics at the Vatican, and touches on the hatred of Francis. As the title suggests, the book is an exploration of what the author describes as near-universal homosexuality at the Vatican - whether closeted, celibate, or lived as an open secret. He draws a connection between the combination of spiritual pride, sexual shame, and internalized homophobia and the culture of rabid misogyny and moral decay. As depicted in the book, Pope Francis stands out from those around him by being both not gay and disinclined to condemn and persecute gay people. As you say, he is very hated by the well-funded conservative American faction.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41150556-in-the-closet-of-the-vatican
Like Andra has said before -- "Let's not pretend their agenda is about anything other than power."
👏👏👏
Good to see you.
Excellent article
My maternal grandparents were Jehovah's Witnesses and saw their religion as "The Truth". I was raised as a Catholic in a household where there were horrible fights over whose religion was the true religion. I didn't have much of a choice, but I sided with my dad and chose Catholicism, and so did my mom finally. In my 20s and 30s, my former husband and friends were connected to the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland, so I identified heavily with the Catholics in the North as being a group that was discriminated against and persecuted by the Protestant Majority (who ruled in government) The Catholic Church in the Republic of Ireland was rife with scandal, abuse, and oppression. I finally gave up practicing my Catholic faith and Christianity when the child sexual abuse scandal was exposed here in Boston.
None of these religions should be focused on controlling government or society. Yet here we were. And here we are.
Sigh. I know.
I've been waiting for this one. Divide and conquer is a legitimate strategy to use with these folks. But for abortion and a couple of other issues like government funding for religious activities and education, they'd be at each other's throats. In fact, the fundamentalist protestants in this country have historically persecuted Catholics. They actually killed them.
One personal story: I'm a military brat, our family was transferred from base to base about every three years. I attended four high schools, two in Europe, followed in turn by New Orleans and ultimately Fayetteville, NC.
In Fayetteville I was friends with the daughter of a Pentecostal minister. She was a year older than me. One Friday evening, I was at her house to pick her up to go hang out with mutual friends.
As it happens, they had a house guest who had been her father's roommate at seminary. His name was Orel Roberts. Roberts was one of the very first televangelists. He did tent revivals around the country and miraculously healed the sick on B&W TV.
She was home from (you guessed it) Orel Roberts University (ORU) in Tulsa.
Roberts asked me, all of 18 years old, with no small talk, if I was born again. I responded to the effect that as a Roman Catholic, we thought of it a bit differently. His response turned me off on religion forevermore. He said, "Idolators don't go to heaven." How's an 18-year old supposed to respond to that?
When I discovered the seven mountains strategy almost 30 years ago, I recognized immediately what it was. So, Andra, I was a convert long before I found this blog. Thanks for taking the time to educate the rest of us.
I just read this one aloud to my husband.
My childhood pastor HATED ORAL ROBERTS WITH A SEETHING PASSION. HATED HATED HATED HIM.
And this is the real crack. Figure out which egomaniac grifter hates which other egomaniac grifter and get them to destroy each other. Because they are nothing but egos bent on self-glorification and graft.
I’m sorry to hear Oral Roberts called you an idolator, James. I taught there in the late 80s. I don’t think that was a position of the administration then, as there were Catholic students attending. I found charismatics to not disparage Catholics, since the charismatic renewal began in the Catholic Church. Baptists, however, did. The Baptist high school I attended claimed Catholics weren’t Christians. However, many faculty, myself included, did not believe as Oral did. We had two gay men and one lesbian (me) in the English Dept. I was only in my mid twenties, and didn’t identify as a lesbian then. But I certainly was.
This was 1967. Much later, I had a friend who taught English at Liberty. He said there was more diversity there than one might imagine.
At the time (‘67), and now even more, I wrote it off to bigotry. It was, for me, an awakening to the hypocrisy, narrow mindedness and the potential evil of religion. I’m at the point that I read the First Amendment as freedom from vs. freedom of religion.
The religious war with be incredibly violent and bloody. Look to the fundamentalists in the Middle East and the Irish Troubles as examples. This makes me seriously consider buying a handgun. I would definitely be a target. I already have a long gun. I hate to think this way, but I think it's realistic for some of us at this point given recent events.
Religious extremism is some of the most violent extremism.
I will try my best to be there Wednesday. As someone who grew up in the charismatic wing of the movement, I have to quibble with a couple of your characterizations of the group. I never heard anyone claim that speaking in tongues was required. I never experienced the gifts of the spirit as performative. And I never heard overt criticism of other Christian groups. These may only be my experiences. However, as someone who attended an independent, Baptist school, I heard much criticism of Catholics. I was part of several charismatic groups from different parts of the country. In fact, charismatics always spoke well of Catholics, since the charismatic renewal began in the Catholic Church. I think, at least with the charismatics, it’s not helpful to generalize. I think the group is massive and more diverse than outsiders might expect. Amy Coney Barrette is someone who bridges the charismatic/catholic divide and suggests how difficult it can be to accurately characterize the charismatics. I’d love to hear what other charismatics experienced. They may have differed from mine.
All three of these sects are part of much bigger Christian groups. For the Dominionists, speaking in tongues seems to be part of channeling God's edicts or prophecies. It seems to be separate from general charismatics, but I'd love to hear from others with experience in that movement.
I guess I don’t understand who Dominionists are then. In charismatic settings prophesies are delivered in English/the vernacular, so they’re understandable to gathered believers. “Tongues” are prayer languages understandable to the Holy Spirit, though they may be in actual human languages, just not the language of the one speaking. Again, I can only speak from my experience. I’m not a theologian or expert in the field. My academic credentials are only in English literature, as you know. I’m just really, really curious to know how my experience fits into any larger, more comprehensive charismatic one. For example, I have zero experience with Assemblies of God churches. They may believe differently than the folks at Oral Robert’s University, where I taught. Fascinating stuff. You know more about this than I do. For example, I didn’t even know there were three kinds of Christian nationalists.
I don't know if you saw James Fetig's comment about meeting Oral Roberts when he was younger...
No, I hadn’t seen the comment. Thanks for letting me know!
Excellent article, Andra. Thanks for writing it.
Understood! Thanks : )